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Talk:Fish Pond

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Emptying Ponds

Consider a fish pond whose capacity has been increased (perhaps to 10) by fulfilling quests from the fish. Does anyone know what happens if the pond is then emptied? Basically, is the increased capacity connected to the type of fish within the pond, or to the pond itself? Does the increased capacity remain? Or does it go back down to the starter value (which is what, btw), disappearing with the fish whose quests were fulfilled? Butterbur (talk) 18:28, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


I increased a few Fish Ponds to 10 before emptying them out so I could record what fish wanted which items, trying to determine if they were preset or randomly pulled from a list of quests. Fishing out the pond to zero didn't reset the type nor capacity (i.e. Still a 10 slot Oyster pool, just with no Oysters in it), but emptying the pond itself (via the Empty Pond option) completely removed the capacity and type from the pool. Thus, even a previous 10 slot Oyster Pool, once Officially Emptied via the interface, would only accept 3 Oysters upon reintroduction and required doing the quests again. Fishadee (talk) 21:12, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

There seems to be some weirdness with this...I have a coral pond for fertilizer that I fished all the coral out of a few days ago, and no coral has spawned since; it seems like you need at least 1 fish in the pond for reproduction to occur. Can anyone else confirm this? Kaori kins (talk) 23:02, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Reproduction

The article states that all fish except the tiger trout reproduce up to the pond's limit. Is this correct for lava eel and such too, those who have a starting capacity of only one? Would be game logic magic ofc, but animals do it, so... But I've assumed you needed at least two fish in a pond before they can reproduce, so have tossed an extra sturgeon and lava eel in my ponds. Pangaea (talk) 10:58, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

A single fish can create additional fishes all on its own. I have fish ponds that started with only one fish and they all managed to create more of themselves.--Spaceeinstein (talk) 13:23, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Great to hear! I've been wondering about that. But is it true for all fish, or just for those whose initial limit is one per pond? Butterbur (talk) 17:28, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, all fish can reproduce on their own; it doesn't matter what the initial population gate is. This technically includes Tiger Trout too, but their reproduction time is so high (999999 days) that it will never realistically happen. - MouseyPounds (talk) 04:21, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Loot in Chum Buckets

I have gotten loot items including a Pearl and farm warp totems from chum buckets. I don't understand why my edit to the page talking about loot was deleted. Am I missing something? JoliBalony (talk) 01:00, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

These aren't produced by random fish but by specific fish in ponds which the page details.

Numberland (talk) 08:33, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Links related to Production and Profitability

  • Datamine on fish ponds including a very raw summary of production: https://mouseypounds.github.io/1.4_datamine/dm_fishpond.txt
  • /u/Oliviaruth from reddit (post link) has run the numbers on profitability (assuming max population) and uploaded their results to a gist page. The reddit post is slightly more updated (although it only contains the artisan-bonus aged roe) as the original gist miscalculated the value for caviar.

- MouseyPounds (talk) 04:10, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, this is great data and should get into the wiki in a structured fashion. Some type of table I suppose. Looking at what the different fish can spawn, there are often more than one type of item (not just roe). Does this work similar to for monster drops, so that they can drop multiple items, or will be only one of them, so e.g. either roe or magma geodes (at high population ponds) for lava eels, but not both? Looking at that data, I thought it would be like for monsters, so you'd be nearly guaranteed roe, and then a small chance for the other items, but looking at the reddit discussion it seems like people assume it's an either/or situation. Pangaea (talk) 06:34, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
This is going to need to be added to item pages too I think. Getting warp totems from crab pot fish is really valuable. Bassgoonist (talk) 01:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Population change

I don't think this is correct currently? Obviously I haven't tried every species in-game, but based on what I have seen, the population change has been: 3 to 5, 5 to 7, 7 to 10. And 1 to 3 for species that start with only one, like lava eel. Pangaea (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Quite right, thank you for pointing that out! I believe I've fixed the problem. margotbean (talk) 16:55, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Data Bug

There appears to be a bug in 1.4.3 (and most likely earlier patches) where a few of the fish definitions are skipped because the keys incorrectly use fish_<name> instead of item_<name>. My datamine always assumed these were equivalent, but that seems to be wrong. These invalid keys cause four pond definitions to be skipped and different definitions to be used instead for the affected fish:

  • Super Cucumber and Octopus use the Ocean Fish definition instead of their own, so that they have the same quests, production, and spawn frequency as Pufferfish.
  • Rainbow Trout uses the River Fish definition instead of its own, so that it has the same quests, production, and spawn frequency as Bream, Chub, Perch, Salmon, Shad, and Smallmouth Bass.
  • Catfish also uses the River Fish definition instead of its own, but has a unique spawn frequency of 4 days.

This bug has been reported to the devs and will likely be fixed in a later patch, but for now those four fish are incorrect on the page. - MouseyPounds (talk) 18:32, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Mousey! I'll hold off on editing the page until there's a fix. History has taught me that as soon as I "fix" a page, CA will push a change that changes it again.  :D margotbean (talk) 17:57, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
I've added this as a reference to the main page since knowing at least that these fish are not functioning correctly is useful but is saves having to edit the page to match a bug and then back. Numberland (talk) 14:50, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
Hi, according to the Prismatic Shard page, the rainbow trout should produce one, but this is not reflected in the table. Is this related to the bug you're mentioning? JohnFarm (talk) 15:03, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi John, it actually is in the table, between Rainbow Shard and Roe (0.1% chance at population 9+). margotbean (talk) 15:30, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, my mistake, I was looking at the quest table and thought it was the produce table. JohnFarm (talk) 19:21, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Propagating to fish pages

It would be very useful to have at least the production and possibly the quests for each fish as well as the roe and aged roe prices. Do people think this is a good idea and if so whether drawing up a template would be a good idea? Numberland (talk) 09:00, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

It would be useful, once the data bug discussed above is ironed out. margotbean (talk) 14:36, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to start adding the fish pond details to the individual fish pages. I've updated the four fish pages that had partial data (Catfish, Midnight Squid, Pufferfish, Squid). I also added data to Blobfish to provide an example with less simplistic output items.
In the process I've altered the format. Especially for the produced items, I'd like the displayed data to be more directly relevant to gameplay -- with a single line providing the chance of a given item for a fish pond size, instead of requiring readers to process ten lines of data to work out the chances.
Any feedback/suggestions, especially regarding the proposed format? Nebulous Maestress (talk) 03:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
My quick and dirty feedback: I don't think we need to state the color of roe or its sell price in the intro paragraph, it's already in the infobox and the output table. To be consistent with the Fish Pond page, change "output" to "produce". Use headings or boldface text outside the table for headings (the centering looks strange), and give the calculation for "Overall Daily Chance" somewhere. As with the monster drops, a lengthy explanation can be placed on the Fish Pond page and referenced from individual pages, if need be. Also, place the entire section above the "Quests" section. Finally, change the Quests table heading from "Fishing XP" to "Fishing XP Granted", since there's room for it. That's it, in a nutshell. Thanks! margotbean (talk) 18:22, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback! I've implemented several suggestions. My feelings about the other points:
  • I don't think there's a downside to a sentence about roe, plus it's good as far as consistency, given that some pages (squid, coral, etc.) need a sentence about producing something other than roe. I've tried tweaking the sentence: does that make it seem less superfluous?
  • I agree the layout of the table captions could be better, but I think it should be handled via css. The HTML being used is intended specifically for table captions.
While I'd like to eventually add explanatory info to the Fish Pond article, right now it feels awkward to add explanations for numbers that aren't visible anywhere on the page. In the interim, it's easier to post the info here.
  • The column "% of Items" is the percent chance derived solely from the item data -- the chance of an item appearing without taking into account the first 23-95% population-based test.
  • The column "Overall Daily Chance" is the chance per day of obtaining an item. It is obtaining by multiplying "% of Items" times the 23-95% population-based chance.
A full example to demonstrate how the numbers were obtained. The raw data from FishPond.xnb for Squid is:
Fish Population Item(s) Produced % Chance Order of Check
Squid 7+ 1 Squid Ink 100% 1
5+ 1 Squid Ink 60% 2
3+ 1 Squid Ink 45% 3
1+ 1 Squid Ink 25% 4
  • At population 1-2, only entry #4 applies, so the "% of Items" is 25%. "Overall Daily Chance" is multiplied by 23% at population 1, and 31% at population 2, resulting in 6-8%.
  • At population 3-4, entries #3 and #4 apply. Entry #3 contributes 45%. Entry #4 only matters in the (100-45)% fraction of cases where entry#3 fails, so it now contributes 55% * 25%. The sum, 59%, is "% of Items", Multiply by 39% and 47% to get the "Overall Daily Chance" at population 3 or 4. Result: 23-28%.
Nebulous Maestress (talk) 21:35, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Looks good! I think an intro sentence is appropriate also, just not a repeat of the roe image and price. As for the captions - you're right of course, that there's a reason for mediawiki including table captions, it just looks odd considering the table isn't centered, and table captions aren't used anywhere else on the wiki. It's not a huge deal for me, though. I personally dislike links in headings (h1, h2, etc.) so I'd rather they be in a caption than a heading. Just my personal preference.
It's also fine to wait on adding the reference to the full calculation until all other details are finished. You've proved that you're not going to leave a project unfinished, so I'm good with you implementing your plan on your timetable. Just be aware that v1.5 could drop at any time, and when it does, the wiki is going to explode for several days or even weeks. Sooner is better.  :D Thanks so much! margotbean (talk) 21:55, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
OK, I went ahead and updated all the fish pages last night.
Which now makes it easier to update the Fish Pond page. I've replaced the big Produce table with a new proposed version that I think works better as an overview. All info for a given item/fish has been condensed into a single line. Some of the detail is lost (because the individual fish pages can now provide those details), but the table can now be meaningfully sorted/searched. Feedback? Nebulous Maestress (talk) 19:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
My only feedback (other than it looks nice and I don't have nearly enough time to verify any of it!) is that I think some of the large changes you're making would be better done on a sandbox page before being committed to the main page(s). If you'd get in the habit of doing that, I'd be a happy mod. Although the probability is low, if a page is copied into another language, and then it's decided that tweaks are needed to the EN page, the workload increases dramatically.
You can always place a comment on the talk page to draw attention to the proposed changes, or even put a template (Template:Construction, Template:Stub) at the top of the section to point to the sandbox page for even more visibility. margotbean (talk) 21:21, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Default order of the tables?

What are they ordered by? For example, why are carp and herring almost at the top, when they only ever produce 1 roe, and so would IMO logically belong near the other basic fishes that also only produce roe. I haven't found what the basis for the current order is, except perhaps just the order they've been typed in as? Obviously it would be preferable to have both the quest table and produce table be in the same order as far as possible. Miscreantpanda (talk) 23:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Fish pond xp

The formula stated is incorrect. It states sell price × 0.4, this should be 0.04. I will correct when I am at my comp. BlaDe (talk) 20:15, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Well I was hoping that the values shown on the fish pages were calculated... Looks like they are entered manually... BlaDe (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
I've created a spreadsheet with the correct values. I was about to update the pages when the wiki went down. Will work on it as I can. Thanks for pointing this out! margotbean (talk) 00:53, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
OK, there is no table of XP for quests or produce, except on the individual Fish pages, and those values are for completing quests, so the formula is (presumably) correct. Which values need to be changed? margotbean (talk) 01:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Individual fish pages have tables showing XP for harvesting items. These values are incorrect. E.g. on the Lionfish page, Tiger Slime Eggs are stated to give 3210 XP. This should be 330. BlaDe (talk) 03:11, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I don't know why I didn't see that! This is a big problem. Sigh, I'll get on it. I wonder if anyone is looking at these tables, since no one else has mentioned it, and I didn't even see it when I was looking for it.  ? margotbean (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Do you have a list you are working through? I'll chip in and help out BlaDe (talk) 21:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
I'm going through Template:NavboxFish starting from the top. If you want to start from the bottom, that would be great! Note, though, that I'm also changing the formatting and getting rid of the table captions that look weird and aren't used on any other page, while I change the XP values. ...Your choice, no pressure. :D margotbean (talk) 22:01, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Changes are complete. margotbean (talk) 03:35, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Margot the legend BlaDe (talk) 03:55, 30 January 2021 (UTC)