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Talk:Ginger Island

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Simon Says and Simon

Let's take a breath. The game is Simon Says. It's been around since at least my mother's childhood. We're talking 80+ years. It's probably a good deal earlier. No electronic games then. Hence, *somebody* had to "say". There was no electronic recording in play.

There is indeed a game called Simon, as has been pointed out. It was created in 1978 by Milton Bradley and was loosely based upon Simon Says. It was electronic, at least by the standards of its day. And apparently it's been loosely copied itself. Not surprising. The whole concept has proved to be highly enduring, shifting forms to compensate to societal changes.

My point is that the mini-game here is still a derivative of the original concept (Simon Says), as are all the other derivatives. They all match conceptually so closely that the game idea itself is virtually unchanged. We cannot say that it is Simon *rather than* Simon Says. That makes no sense. Any argument is about the name, not the game. And that also does not make sense, because the game concept is the same.

So, I'm going to remove commentary about anyone being "incorrect". No one here has been incorrect. Everyone has been right on target, and yet we have two correct answers. So, how should it be resolved?

The concept goes with the original game: "Simon Says". But this is a mini-game, electronically governed. So what does Stardew Valley call it? Is there any reference in-game? I say if so, we should go with that. But what if not?

I'm 69 years old. "Simon" sounds wrong. Not because it *is* wrong, but because I have many years of calling it "Simon Says". If you're too young to know this, habit and practice do not give up easily, no matter what a person chooses. "Simon" will always sound wrong to me, and I have no choice about that. But Milton Bradley entered the picture over 40 years ago, which is also significant time, and perhaps some of you who are younger than me grew up with that name. HA! You have a practiced habit too! And no more choice than I about how it sounds to you.

So, is "Simon" a game name that is that familiar - exclusively? Let's just take a poll and agree to go the direction that is natural to more people. Because we all have a point. But there's no point in arguing about it. Butterbur (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

"Simon Says" is a game yes, but it's not this game. "Simon Says" and "Simon" are two entirely different games. "Simon Says" involved being told to do something, as you stated. In "Simon Says" one person in the game is "Simon", and that person says something like "Simon says pat your head", if you do something other than what "Simon Says" to do, you lose, you're out.
The game "Simon" is specifically the color matching game. The electronic device, named "Simon", plays you a set of colored buttons, and then you must repeat that same color sequence. Which is exactly what we're doing here. TheElm (talk) 02:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
I might also add, the only similarity between the games is that they have "Simon" in the name. To quote somebody else, it's like comparing "Car" to "Carpet". The Simon (game) wiki never references "Simon Says" once TheElm (talk) 02:42, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
Okay, the wiki literally does say "Simon is named after the simple children's game of Simon Says" so that argument is invalid.
Wiki says that it is named after Simon Says but that the game is NOT based on Simon Says. I see no relation between the games other than in marketing material. Carnilius (talk) 08:08, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
I personally think it would make sense to call the game "Simon Says" because it is way more widely known and is far more specific than "Simon" because "Simon" can have many, many meanings and "Simon Says" is pretty specifically tied to the concept of doing something you're told, in this case repeating the pattern. I do think it would make a certain amount of sense to link to the wikipedia article for "Simon" because the game play is much closer to "Simon" than "Simon Says" and would get a reader to the proper and relevant information more quickly.
(Also for what it's worth, I'm 24 and have played and heard of "Simon Says" and did not know "Simon" existed until today, so it's not just an age difference). Lesbianvalley (talk) 04:09, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. At my age, I just expect such differences to occur, but I never know what's commonest among the young. :) I like your thought about Simon (Says) too, in light of what you say. Simon Says really is the game concept, and older names should generally be used unless or until newer ones become overridingly common. (It leaves fewer people out that way. And some changes prove to be only fads, though not so much in this case.)
I'm sure Milton Bradley named their game "Simon" because "Simon Says" was already established in the public arena, so trademark and copyright laws would not allow them to appropriate that. So they did the next best thing, to draw an obvious but not literal name connection. The Wikipedia article is about *only* the Milton Bradley game. The link would be OK as long as that was made clear. Wikipedia is not the fount of all information, and sometimes it gets stuff wrong. Here, we have a broader subject than that single article covers, and that needs to remain obvious.
But I've said a lot, and I really don't want to scare off anyone who has a different opinion. I just want what we put into the Wiki to serve the best interests of its readers. Butterbur (talk) 22:15, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Ginger Island West - Tidal Pools

Corals and Sea Urchins spawning there are not iridium quality, rather they always seem to be no-star quality when picked up with botanist perk. Bug? Please confirm. Byzel (talk) 21:33, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I reported it to the devs a while ago, and they haven't changed it. It wouldn't hurt for you to post a bug report on the official forums (link in left sidebar) to nudge them to change it, though.  :D margotbean (talk) 21:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Reorganizing

I propose that the south east island section is broken off into its own level 1 separate subsection. Furthermore, I think that the parts of the island should be listed in order of when they become accessible to the player. e.g. South --> Southeast --> East --> North --> West. I don't understand the logic behind the current ordering. e.g. North --> South --> East --> West --Zamiel (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I was considering doing similar things for the Golden Walnuts page (dividing South-East from South, reordering with South first.) It's worth noting that putting Southeast next to South is a logical way of looking at it once the full Island is unlocked, but doesn't follow the order of accessibility rule, since Southeast is the last place players can access. Polk (talk) 00:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Gold Star Items in a Shop

How do I properly represent that Gus sells gold-quality Mango Wine? --Zamiel (talk) 23:58, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Fixed using Template:Quality margotbean (talk) 01:08, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Gus

I found Gus at the resort on a Sunday and I added all the items I found to the wiki. However, the following two things still need to be confirmed:

  • Is Gus always at the resort on every Sunday? Can he be at the resort on any other days?
  • Does Gus always sell these exact items or is there some kind of rotating stock, similar to the Dwarf in the Volcano Dungeon?

--Zamiel (talk) 01:01, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about the days he visits but there is no rotating stock. Rain (talk) 01:22, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
I've seen him at the resort's bar on Monday, and the stock someone else described in the page is the exact same as it was for me, so I assume it's not a rotating stock, yes.--Toleda (talk) 07:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Gus is there on random days. From reading the decompiled code, visitor selection works as below
  • Gus is usually capable of being a visitor to the island (mostly he's not available when no one is available).
  • 40% of the time the game just selects up to 5 random villagers from among the valid visitors.
  • 60% of the time the game randomly selects a group of villagers from among preset groups of villagers.
    • If any in that group are invalid, it ignores the group and selects up to 5 random villagers.
    • If a group is selected and it is not of size 5 or greater, then up to 5 minus the group size villagers are added.
Gus is not among any of the preselected groups which is why he shows up less than other villagers who don't have heavy restrictions on their visiting days. SpringTragedyComet (talk) 03:59, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Remove golden walnut details?

Does anyone have any objections to removing some of the callouts for golden walnut locations and details from this page? When everything was originally being written there was no other place to put them, but now the Golden Walnut page is a little more fleshed out, and the parts left on Ginger Island are unneeded.

Btw, this is suggested while still acknowledging that Golden Walnuts are an important Ginger Island mechanic, and are used to unlock places or given as a reward for a large portion of the special locations. How much detail we want to keep might be flexible, since despite the fact that it would be duplicated info, there may still be cases where not including mentions of Golden Walnuts would leave the readers missing parts of the picture.

I'm partial to generally leaving things here at a vague 'X Location can be unlocked with Golden Walnuts' and 'Solving the Y puzzle will reward the player with golden walnuts/other prizes.' Quantities may also be useful here. Walnuts found by exploring, digging, fighting, fishing, etc. can most likely be removed. Polk (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Access to Willy’s back room to help fix his boat & access Ginger Island

I finished the community center ages ago, but have still not received an invite from Willy to help fix his boat. (I even re-read all the letters in my collection)

Is access to Ginger Island not available to people playing Ver 1.4.4 on a Switch console?

(Foxy (talk) 12:43, 20 January 2021 (UTC))

Sorry, Ginger Island is a new level that came with Update 1.5, and can't be accessed without it. It's mentioned in the Fish Shop history section, but the Ginger Island page has no history section yet. (I'll see about starting that now.) Polk (talk) 15:30, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Farmable lands

Where does the conclusion of 878 farmable land come from? What does it include / not include? User670 (talk) 16:56, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Sleep

I have not found a definitive source of information of what happens when you pass out at 2 am on Ginger Island. It is clear that it is different than passing out on the main land, and depends on whether you have the Island Farmhouse, but unclear the penalties.

Ginger Island and seasons

Should every crop, seed, and fruit page mention that they can be grown year-round on Ginger Island (e.g. Taro Root infobox)? Should the greenhouse be mentioned along with Ginger Island on every page?--Spaceeinstein (talk) 15:58, 31 January 2021 (UTC)