Talk:Grape

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Tiller Bonus

My edit content is a reasonable statement of my experience in selling a Grape during summer, but it could use examination that I am not able to pursue at this time. I am not absolutely certain that it is the time of sale that determines whether or not the bonus is given. The Grape I sold was indeed summer forage, sold in summer. I have not answered the question of what the same grape would sell for if I waited until Fall. Nor have I grown a Grape in Fall and sold it later, in summer in particular. If the game behavior is different from what I have stated, then it must keep track of when and/or how the player acquired each and every individual item, and I simply think that to be unlikely. But I haven't verified that. Butterbur (talk) 21:28, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

I conducted some testing on this new bug you discovered. Very interesting.

I sold a foraged grape in Summer for 80g. On the first day of fall, I again sold a foraged grape for 80g. Now it gets interesting.

On the 11th of Fall, I sold a crop grape for 88g -- I got the tiller prof. bonus.

On the 12th of Fall, I took a forage grape from one chest and a crop grape from another chest into inventory. I dumped both into the shipping box and received 160g for both.

On the 13th of Fall, I took a forage grape from a chest and put it in the shipping box. Then I put a stone in the shipping box. Then I took a crop grape from the other chest and put it in the shipping box. At the end of the day, I got 176g for the two grapes.

The game does keep track of which grapes are forage and which are grown crops. In the save file, crops have the entry <Name>Grape</Name> and forage grapes have the entry <name>Forage Grapes</name>. Despite this, it appears that selling grapes is quite buggy.

A look at the game code might shed more light on what's going wrong. It could be in the code that controls sell price, or it could be in the way items are saved... I took care to keep the two kinds of grapes separate in-game, but if I hadn't, I wonder if they would all have been saved as one type of grape or the other...

Open invitation to anyone who wants to look at the code (ahem, Butterbur, ahem) margotbean (talk) 02:35, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Very interesting indeed. Can you go back to these test days (have you saved the game files)?

Re 12 Fall, the shipping box treated both grapes as forage. Questions: First, did the two grapes stack together in inventory? Next, did you take the forage grape into inventory first, then add the crop grape? Thought: If they stack together, perhaps the first grape(s) into the stack determine the grape type for all grapes that end up in the stack. This could happen once everything is in the shipping box (a sort of inventory all its own), but it could also happen in the inventory itself. What happens if you repeat taking the grapes into inventory just as before, but then call it a day, and go to sleep? What type(s) of grape(s) are recorded then in the next day's game file record? You must remember that the code name in the game file is a static record, a state of things as of the save point. However, the game is dynamic, and the representation of the objects in memory is something different. The bug could reside in flaws in the transition between static and dynamic, but it could also reside in flaws in the combining of objects (in memory) when they are stacked. Stacks separate types, at least statically. (Consider flower colors as well as quality.) But stacking processes may not be looking for this subtle grape type difference, and might erase differences, choosing whatever type comes to hand (first in list?). And stacking processes are dynamic, by definition. You might be able to expose the results, though, by examination of the static definitions in the game files.

Re 13 Fall, you indicated that the forage grape went into the shipping box first. Stone next, fine, perhaps irrelevant, perhaps not. But the crop grape went last, and the income was for two crop grapes. So, did the shipping box merge the two into one "stack", internally, and use the second type for both? Repeat the test except for reversing the order of the two grapes and see if you get income for two forage grapes.

Looking at code works sometimes, but works best if you know what you're looking for (even then you can miss it). Knowing where to look is most important of all. Examining the results of tests such as these helps one to pinpoint where to look and what to look for. Then you stand a much better chance of revealing the issue with the code. Butterbur (talk) 20:24, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Additional ideas (that I can't check out right away):

1. Can a crop grape be used with a Spice Berry and a Sweet Pea to craft summer seeds?
2. Does a seed maker accept forage grapes in order to make Grape seeds?

I've been wondering how grapes might be handled in any other game operations and if distinctions are neatly maintained, or if there are anomalies there also. Unless operations are uniform, then the claim that grapes are both crop and forage is really just a fiction, and we have in fact two separate produce types, just as separate as Tulip and Dandelion. (Well, maybe not "just as", but a nebulous step in that direction.) As per Shakespeare, a rose by any other name still smells as sweet, but a flower named rose is certainly not a rose if it does not. Butterbur (talk) 00:24, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Here's yet another idea: You've looked at 1 crop and 1 forage together. How about 2 of one and 1 of the other? Does that affect which is the dominating type for sales? It would be good to determine what factor(s) the program uses to determine this. Anything that was just random or an artifact of which item came up before the other (dynamically) would be uncontrollable by the user, and inevitably look like a bug. Butterbur (talk) 06:06, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Margotbean, having moved into Fall, and having some crop Grapes at hand, I've looked briefly at a little of this again. What I find is that I can see no trace of forage grapes at all in the save file. The entry code <Name>Grape</Name> is used for all grapes, forage or crop, even the forage stacks that have not been mixed with crops. Looking back at the summer save files, then, I see that the same entry code is present there, with no sign of the special code for forage that you have talked about.

I'm wondering if this is a game version difference. I'm using 1.1, on Steam, with PC, Windows 10. Are you on 1.2 perhaps? Or would it be 1.0? Perhaps the bugginess is known, and is being addressed, at least partially, in some of the ongoing game development. The situation is also characteristic of some of the things that Beta releases tend to uncover. Butterbur (talk) 16:58, 12 April 2017 (BST)

I'm using v1.11 (GOG version), not the Beta. The GOG and Steam versions of 1.1 (aka 1.11) ought to be exactly the same. I'd bet money that our save files show the same things -- somewhere/somehow the attribute "Foraged Grape" gets lost in the save file, and they all become just "Grape."

I believe I have the saves from the game I started to test this bug (the ones that still have the "Foraged Grape" attribute), but finding time to do extensive testing is another thing entirely, I'm afraid! margotbean (talk) 22:46, 12 April 2017 (BST)

Given those versions, I would also anticipate that our save files ought to be the same. But I sure wouldn't bet money on it! In fact, I think they must be different. I opened mine with Notepad and searched for every occurrence of the string "Grape", which should expose both possibilities. In no case did I find "Foraged" as an accompaniment. So, despite the identical version number, there must be a difference in code between platforms. Perhaps that is a bug too. Perhaps that's also where other bugs live.

Extensive testing of this sort really belongs in the development team's hands. (Not that others couldn't do it. It could help them if someone else did it. But they shouldn't depend on it, and they still wouldn't have developed tests of their own to add to their test suite. They have a responsibility to cover this ground themselves once a problem has been revealed.) I expect our descriptions would be sufficient for them to do a quick verification that problems exist, because we've revealed specifics to look for. They would know better how to extend their whole test suite to get more comprehensive coverage that would catch these items, and they may also see other needful places to cover better at the same time. They're the ones who understand what state their testing tools are in.

I wouldn't suggest that you spend much time on it. But is there a place to send a bug report? That could be a more effective use of time. Butterbur (talk) 08:10, 13 April 2017 (BST)

That's an easy one: Bug Report Form

It's part of the developer's blog/website (http://stardewvalley.net/), so I think it just might go straight to ConcernedApe. At least, I've used it myself, and that was my hope.  :D margotbean (talk) 08:49, 13 April 2017 (BST)

Thanks! I've submitted a bug, and given them a pointer to this discussion. Hope they can take it from there! Butterbur (talk) 17:51, 14 April 2017 (BST)

Number of Harvests

Unless I am horribly mistaken, the math concerning the number of harvests is wrong.

Assuming you have delux speed grow, you plant on the first of the month and it is ready for its first harvest in 8 days, i.e. on the 9th. That leaves you with 28-9=19 days for additional harvests, with 3 days between them that gives 6.3333 harvests, so 6. That 6 plus the original gives 7. So with just deluxe speed grow you get 7 harvests. Even with normal speed grow, the growth takes 9 days, so it is ready on the 10th, and then you have 18 days left giving you an extra 6 harvests so a total of 7. With deluxe speed grow and Agriculturalist, you still only get 7. 7 days to grow so first harvest on the 8th. Then 20 days left for 6.6666 harvests, so only an extra 6.

If I am mistaken, can someone point out where and fix up the page. Are you capable of planting seeds on the last day of the preceding month, I didn't think you could, but noticed you could set up a beehive then?JackBlack69 (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2017 (BST)

Your math and your changes seem correct to me. The original author of those numbers posted approximately a year ago, so there's no way to ask him what he meant ("extra" harvests or what?) margotbean (talk) 23:45, 2 October 2017 (BST)