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Talk:Omni Geode

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Working on drop rate research, my raw data can be found in this Google Docs spreadsheet: [1] I've only opened and recorded 300 as of this writing, but I hope to do at least 1,000 on each luck "type" of day (lucky, unlucky, neutral).

NerakanDrac (talk) 22:22, 28 June 2016 (EDT)

Luck does not affect the geode percentages From looking at the code here is a pseudo code of the geodes

if 50% success {
 stack = choose number from  1, 3 ,7
 if 10% success stack = 10
 if 1% success stack = 20
 if 50% success {
   1/4 of nothing  tot =  1/16
   1/4 of stack amount of stone 1/16
   1/4 of one clay  1/16
   1/4 of one fire quartz 1/16
 }
 else
 { 
   1/5 of stack amount of copper ore 1/20
   1/5 of stack amount of iron ore 1/ 20 
   1/5 of stack amount of coal ore 1/ 20
   1/5 of stack amount of gold ore 1/ 20
   1/5 of (stack amount/2+1) of iridium ore 1/20
 } 
} 
else
{
  if  number of geodes cracked is greater than 15
  {
    0.8% of prismal crystal  1/125	tot 1/250
  }
   choose one item randomly from this list (there are 44 items in this list so it is a 1/44 chance to pick any one item)
  {Dwarvish Helm,Dwarf Gadget,Ancient Drum,Alamite,Bixite,Baryte,Aerinite,Calcite,Dolomite,Esperite,Fluorapatite,Geminite,Helvite,Jamborite,Jagoite,Kyanite,Lunarite,Malachite,Neptunite,Lemon Stone,Nekoite,
   Orpiment,Petrified Slime,Thunder Egg,Pyrite,Ocean Stone,Ghost Crystal,Tigerseye,Jasper,Opal,Fire Opal,Celestine,Marble,Sandstone,Granite,Basalt,Limestone,Soapstone,Hematite,Mudstone,Obsidian,Slate,
   Fairy Stone,Star Shards} 
}

and so the probabilities are

Commons 1/16 or 6.25% for all

nothing  1/16 or 6.25%
stone 1/16 or 6.25%
clay  1/16 or 6.25%
fire quartz or 1/16 6.25%

Geode Ores 1/20 or 5% for all

copper ore 1/20 or 5%
iron ore 1/ 20 or 5%
coal ore 1/ 20 or 5%
gold ore 1/ 20 or 5% 
iridium ore 1/20 or 5%

Geode Specifics

1/250 for a prismatic shard (only earn able after the player has cracked their 15 geode) 
if the player has cracked 15 geode it is
31/2750 or 1.127%
if the player has not crack 15 geode it is
1/88 or 1.136%
for a item in this list
{Dwarvish Helm,Dwarf Gadget,Ancient Drum,Alamite,Bixite,Baryte,Aerinite,Calcite,Dolomite,Esperite,Fluorapatite,Geminite,Helvite,Jamborite,Jagoite,Kyanite,Lunarite,Malachite,Neptunite,Lemon Stone,Nekoite,
Orpiment,Petrified Slime,Thunder Egg,Pyrite,Ocean Stone,Ghost Crystal,Tigerseye,Jasper,Opal,Fire Opal,Celestine,Marble,Sandstone,Granite,Basalt,Limestone,Soapstone,Hematite,Mudstone,Obsidian,Slate,
Fairy Stone,Star Shards} 

Explanation for the last part

The game chooses one item randomly from this list which gives a chance of 1/44 
then to account for the prismatic shard multiply 1/44 by 124/125(the chance of failing to earn the prismatic shard )
giving a 31/1375 finally multiply by 1/2 to account for the first 50% which 
gives a final probability of 31/2750 of any item in this list
if the pristmatic shard it not accounted it is just 1/44 * 1/2; 1/88 or 1.136%

Teseting (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2016 (EDT)

Probabilities

These calculations fail to take a couple of things into account:

  • If the player has not yet found an artifact, then 5 stone will be substituted (see GeodeMenu.cs::update())
  • It's not possible to find nothing in an Omni Geode (check the syntax of the switch case statement)
    • 2/4 of the switch case = stone, 1/4 = clay, and 1/4 = fire quartz
  • The 5% chance of finding ore or coal only happens 50% of the time (so 1/20 × 1/2 = 1/40), assuming true randomness margotbean (talk) 21:37, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Additional comments:

  • Actually, the 5% chance of finding ore or coal is already taking into account the 50% for resources versus minerals, so the 1/20 is correct.
    • 1/5 chance of coal (or specific ore) × 1/2 chance of ores vs basic resources × 1/2 chance of resources versus minerals = 1/20
  • If the chance of stone is actually 2/4 (because "nothing" isn't an option), then the overall chance of stone should be changed to 1/8, instead of 1/16.--Divinius (talk) 14:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
The pseudocode shown above isn't totally correct (as of v1.11) about the items rolled for. What it shows about flipping a coin twice is correct, though. Lines 1 and 5 both say "if 50% success." That's 50% of 50% for stone, clay, fire quartz, and ores. The pseudocode is missing the chance for coal, but it's in the block of code along with the ores. margotbean (talk) 18:20, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
As of v1.2, the code can be found in Utility::getTreasureFromGeode. --margotbean (talk) 19:44, 9 June 2018 (BST)

Math

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kF2G5YkdeC5oE4zrgJmwHk8pK3xySfEZGO_eRehiwKI/edit#gid=0 --Zamiel (talk) 22:23, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

The sheet needs to show the equation(s) used to calculate the numbers. margotbean (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
What do you mean the equation? It is just an average, meaning you add up everything and then divide it by the number of things. --Zamiel (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
What is "everything" and what is "the number of things"? It's not clear how you calculated "Average Value (First 15)" or "Average Value (16+)". margotbean (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Those columns are not calculated. They are taken directly from the wiki. I don't know if you have ever used Excel before, but you can click on a cell and then look at the top part of the screen to see what is inside the cell. --Zamiel (talk) 17:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
Margo, you have not responded in some time, are you going to restore my edit? --Zamiel (talk) 20:48, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
It's Margot, and no, unfortunately, it's not clear enough. If I have to do research to understand the statement (and the spreadsheet), it needs more explanation. margotbean (talk) 20:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
What exactly needs to be explained? --Zamiel (talk) 21:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Margot, it has been another few days and you have not responded. What exactly needs to be explained about the spreadsheet? --Zamiel (talk) 00:26, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
You added some unsubstantiated trivia to the page, and then linked to a spreadsheet on the talk page. The spreadsheet requires me to click in a cell and backtrace the formula used to calculate each item, and then the total. So, one problem is that you never added a reference to the edit, and the second problem is that the reference itself isn't clear. What is unclear is how you arrived at each number in the average values columns. If I have to click and backtrace the equation while navigating cell numbers, the reference requires more explanation. The value of the trivia, given that the contents of each geode opened is predetermined by the number assigned to the save file, is minimal. I'm sorry. margotbean (talk) 01:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

How I arrived at the numbers in each column is described by the titles of each column on row 6. In other words, the spreadsheet calculates the algorithm described on the current wiki page: "By multiplying the sell price of each item by the chance to obtain it, and adding those products together, you can find the average profit of breaking open a single Omni Geode." Furthermore, the 80.92 number listed on the existing page does not match what I have calculated in my spreadsheet, so without any proof of work behind the calculation, I will assume that it is wrong, and I will update the page to correct it based on what is listed in my spreadsheet. In closing, I will mention that it is extremely frustrating for me to go through all of the work to create a spreadsheet to show the exact calculation, and then having you reverting my edit, literally calling it "unsubstantiated trivia", and then allowing someone to post the exact same information 6 months later with a potentially wrong number and without showing any work. --Zamiel (talk) 03:24, 15 January 2021 (UTC)