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User talk:Margotbean/archive1

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Weather inline

I can make the infobox handle the formatting, so that you don't have to go through all the pages that specify weather. --BryghtShadow (talk) 07:54, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

I would LOVE that! :)
I think I already changed all the pages that use it for now (there weren't that many), but going forward, it would be great if it was formatted automatically.
What do you think about adding the icons for Seasons in a similar way? --margotbean (talk) 00:30, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Pet Friendship

Hi! Noticed your entry today on filling the pet's water bowl to increase friendship. I've been doing that all along just because; and petting was an obvious thing to do. But I've been wondering if there's a way to get the pet to come inside the house at night. My dog's been left out in the rain once already, and I didn't see him all the next day. Not sure what effect that might have had on friendship, but if any, it couldn't have been good. Just running a quick let's-see-what-happens once, he jumped into bed with me one night, but I've never seen that again. Must have been a good sign, and wanted to make it happen again.

Any ideas how to influence these things more positively?

Thanks. Butterbur (talk) 01:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Not to be toooo spoilerific, but the only two things that affect pet friendship are petting and watering. If your pet won't come inside at night, try leaving the house and going back in. If it's late enough, your pet should spawn inside the house.
If it's raining when you wake up, your pet is coded to be inside the house. If you can't find him/her, then he/she probably ran off into the blackness around the house and took a nap. (Seriously, I have dozens of screenshots of my dog sleeping in the blackness, or stuck behind a picture on my spouse's wall.)
Of course, I would prefer to think that your dog was upset at being left out in the rain, and happy when he jumped into bed with you, but it's just not coded that way. Kind of disappointing.... margotbean (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 :) Ah, well, if that's the way it's coded. There has to be some random element in play, though, that overrides that basic pattern. (I save a copy of the game files aside each game day, so I've checked.) Marnie brought the dog on 10 Spring 1, but as soon as she left, he disappeared, and I didn't see him again that day. The next day it rained, and when I got up, he wasn't in the house. Didn't see him that day either. Having looked all over for him by running the 11th again, I can pretty much guarantee he's not on the farm at all, dark corner or not - not even in the cave. He comes around for the first time on the 12th.
It was all kind of puzzling, especially given that the other animals are so particular about being out or in, and what time it is. I thought that maybe some of those kinds of things were in play also, but no one was saying anything. I looked around the Chucklefish forum and on Steam, but found no threads that talked about it.
In a previous game I abandoned, I went in to see Marnie two days in a row, and she wouldn't respond to me, or wait on me at the counter, even within normal hours. I kind of thought that she might have been mad at me for not treating my dog right. (I had no other animals.) So I wanted to make sure I knew how to stay on her good side also.
That's the deal with an RPG - it's hard to know what matters sometimes. Thanks for all the info! -- Butterbur (talk) 06:37, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
Um... Butterbur... I think you have a ghost in your machine. I can see the dog not showing up because of rain, but I haven't heard of Marnie flat-out ignoring anyone who actually finds her behind the counter. (!)
This may be why you haven't found any threads about it. You need to be looking for paranormal experiences. lol
Seriously, tho, are you playing on a PC? Using a controller? You've piqued my curiosity about Marnie's behavior. margotbean (talk) 16:16, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
So sorry! I've just noticed your reply in this earlier thread. I'm running v1.1 on a PC laptop through Steam, Windows 10, mouse, PC-normal.
I'm still learning the game, somewhat slowly, since I keep detouring to look at a variety of things. And I track what goes on daily so I can go back and examine my experience to see better what works well and what works less well. I'm always developing theories about how to do stuff, and that's one of the things I enjoy about playing the game. Over-the-top too-analytical for some people, I'm sure, but for me, that's fun. Later, when I've got a thorough handle on most stuff, I'll just kick back and play a more relaxed style, trying some approaches I haven't before, and that'll also be fun. I expect to be playing this game for quite a long while!
All of which is a sidebar. I wasn't very familiar with Marnie, and I don't think she was actually behind the counter when she wouldn't reply. I remember following her into another room in her house also. Then I discovered that she doesn't work on Mon and Tue, and it may be I was trying to get her attention for service on one of those days. So all that may simply have been explainable by what I didn't know at the time.
As for the dog, do we get dinged in pet friendship for not petting him if he's not there for a whole day?
I have noticed that when I complete one day and get the "game saved" and "wake-up" crow, I may find the dog inside the house at day's start. He is then pettable, and gives loves. But if I need to exit and restart the game from that point later on, he's generally not there (inside) when I reload. If it's sunny, he's often sleeping outside in his water-dish spot, as is common. It seems the random number generation that controls these features is not saved with the game state, and the identical thread forward is lost in part if it is interrupted.
In my experiences with computers, the paranormal is the norm. LOL Butterbur (talk) 08:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

More on tree planting

Thanks for your recent edit on Fruit Trees! I think I've arrived at another consistent theory of tree planting, and found that it fits nicely with your text there. I made another clarifying edit at Fruit Trees in the mean time. Hope it meets your approval.

In all the exploring I did, it occurred to me that the game really doesn't complain about misplanting trees of any kind, except when fruit trees are concerned, and only when it's about them and any other trees. The net effect is to insist on the two-tile intervening distance between trees, which the article on common trees already says is required for their fastest growth.

But the code you found seems to say that it's only the one-tile distance that matters to the growth of fruit trees. It's just that no other trees can be using any of those same tiles to grow. Other objects at a two-tile distance then, don't interfere with its growth. Is it the same with common trees (or special trees)? Do we know for sure that common trees slow their growth when other objects are at a distance of two tiles? Or is it only when other trees are at that distance? In other words, do they have only the same need for their own 3x3 area that fruit trees do, which forces two-tile distance for optimum growth? I have seen them grow quite fast when they have only their 3x3 clear area, and not a completely clear 5x5 area, so long as it's not other trees invading. (I'm thinking of grass and weeds that spring up, but seem to have little or no effect on the trees.) I would like to hypothesize that not all objects that occupy the land are equal in matters of tree growth, and that really it's other trees growing that interfere with each other.

So, is the game more permissive in the planting of common trees only because they're not as valuable, but in reality the growth rates of the two types derive from the same set of guidances? Perhaps the common tree page needs work also, if a 5x5 clear space is not required. Certainly, now that "private" (non-overlapping) growing spaces have been mentioned for fruit trees, we can either say the same about common trees (if that is correct), or else must differentiate them (if that is correct), and both can't be so at the same time. A while back, I edited the common tree article because it was not clear in regards to growing, and I thought I had got it right, but now there is room for discomfort and error that I'd like to make clear instead.

So, another thought: are trees and crops compatible when adjacent? Do they both grow normally then? Something tells me there should be some problems if one tries this, but then the growing rules again become less clear. I can see trouble if multiple plants are trying to be nurtured from the same soil, less or no trouble if objects are just lying around on the surface, and definite impediments if a large object like a big stump is in the way of a tree's growth area (even when planting is allowed).

Or are these things just considered overkill in the Wiki info system? After all, it can make some sense not to lay absolutely everything out for players, but leave them to figure stuff like this out on their own. Is there a guiding intention on that question on the Wiki?

Thanks again for your help. Your ever-inquisitive Butterbur (talk) 08:24, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Cleaning up the Bundles page

Hello there! I see you reverted my edits to Bundles. Any particular reason? Let me show you what I see:

Before (current): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/253912706824798209/285985708433211393/unknown.png
  • Notice the size of the scrollbar. It's maybe 8-10% of the total bar. Means it is a very long page. Images and text are too big and smash each other and you can't see the next section from the current one.
After (with my edits): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/253912706824798209/285985803598037012/unknown.png
  • Notice the size of the scrollbar. It's close to 25-30% of the total bar. This is reasonable length for a page. Each section is small enough with the lists collapsed that you only have to look at what you want and it's not so distracting and hard to find useful information.
  • Happy to discuss this, thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 04:14, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
Your edits broke countless links to subsections of the page. I invite you to save offensive pages to your hard drive and format them exactly as you wish. margotbean (talk) 04:17, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Can you give me examples? I didn't change any section headers, so that shouldn't have happened at all. I can sandbox the changes in my userspace and make sure to update all the subsection links as needed. Thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 04:23, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Nevermind. I see what happened. I can fix that before I re-implement the change. :) As a side note, I just created a new Real Time Discord chat server for the wiki. I still have to go through and make channels and roles and whatnot, but you are welcome to pop in: https://discord.me/stardewvalleywiki -- Once it's put together, I'll post an invite for everyone on the AN. Technical 13 (talk) 04:36, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
My dear Technical 13, I do admire your enthusiasm. But you are viewing the wiki on a really small interface, it looks like a tablet in portrait orientation. I think Mobile view might please you more (links at the very bottom of any page). At the risk of quashing your enthusiasm, I have to again caution you against making changes that are pleasing to your eye, but might not work for widescreen desktops, and (more importantly) break functionality. You're charging ahead (like the wiki guidelines say to do -- "be bold"), but you're breaking stuff left and right, man! And it does seem that you are picking and choosing which pages to make sweeping changes to, without regard to all the other pages that get affected.
I do like the look of the Bundles page better with your changes, but making the entire page collapsed is just not an option. I've found that out the hard way myself. If you put a large collapsible table on a page, any links to sections below it are completely fubar. (Perhaps you've discovered this already, I can't tell.)
And while you may not want the names of familiar monsters (et al) to display, there are potentially thousands of users who need that info. to be displayed on the page. I fear you may be suffering from a case of tunnel vision. Pleases fix that, will you? margotbean (talk) 06:44, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Staircases

Sorry to bother you with a dumb question, but I suppose one could say it's because I found no hints on the Wiki. I went looking at the Staircase article to see if I could get any hints, came up dry, and then thought "here's room for improvement", but didn't know where to start. Or rather, came up dry again when I tried testing/exploring in-game. If you can give me a hint, or enter something more into the page, maybe I'll be able to derive a new starting point and help the article too.

So, is it really true that you pay 99 Stone to make this item, use it once to go down one level once, and then it disappears never to be found again? What's more, once placed, you can't pick it up or get it back into inventory again? Hardly seems like equipment to me. This is a perishable, consumable resource, like food.

It's available early (Mining 2), so I suppose it must have been considered useful in the early game, where truly valuable items are not particularly found in abundance in the mines. Yet, is diving one level to get out of what should be a pretty manageable battle worth the expenditure of 99 Stone? If you got an up-and-down capability, or some sort of re-use (even if only while you're in the mine one day), I could begin to see some value. But I guess I just don't get it. Hints? Thanks! Butterbur (talk) 16:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Staircases... Hmm... it is true you pay 99 stones for one-time use, yes. If you use one on, say, level 65 to go down to level 66, then immediately take the elevator back to level 65, the staircase will be gone.
I don't know of any article where ConcernedApe specifically talks about the philosophy behind staircases (why available so early, why perishable, why no ability to take them back once placed...)
It's funny, in my second main saved game I found I had terrible trouble getting to the bottom of the mines. Level 85+ was impossible -- I died many times. I was expecting a better weapon in one of the treasure chests at level 60, 70,... but all I got were slingshots. Using staircases never even occurred to me! I saved up enough to buy a better sword, and that made all the difference.
Honestly, I never really consider using staircases, except in the Skull Cavern. Which makes their availability at Mining Level 2 just as much a mystery to me as to you. margotbean (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Ah, great to know I'm not alone! :) I really thought I was probably missing something. I think I'll put something in the article about the behavior, at least, and try to point a bit better to the later-game applicability. Butterbur (talk) 18:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Rewrite complete. Please see section on the new Talk:Staircase page about a problem I can't solve. Butterbur (talk) 19:49, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Foreign-language Links?

A recent edit to Equipment added what appear to be links to foreign-language versions of this Wiki.

I've seen such here before, and removed at least one, thinking it to be useless inasmuch as it left no normally-displayed text on the article. (What good is a link if nobody can see it to use it?) So, was I right to remove the one, or is there a valuable usage here that I'm missing? I'll set myself to respond to these things according to your answer. Thanks. Butterbur (talk) 17:36, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

This one's an easy one to answer!  :D The non-English language links do appear on the page, at the top left in the navbox. There is a post explaining it here: http://community.playstarbound.com/threads/new-wiki-language-support.130059/
I think the ideal is to have all language links on all pages across all domains of the wiki, but it's still early days yet. margotbean (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! I'll go look up that one I removed and reverse my edit. Butterbur (talk) 18:40, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Oh, it was Fruit Trees, and I see you already caught and fixed that one. Thanks. Butterbur (talk) 19:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Categories

Ah, a new day brings a fresh outlook. I have a path now towards figuring out some organizational categories like Equipment. I'll be laying out a plan on a talk page before implementing anything, so my intentions will be clear and anyone can comment before I change stuff in any significant way - only fair on a Wiki.

I have a technical impairment about it, though. Consider the Staircase article. A staircase is listed as Equipment (in the Equipment category), but the article does not contain the link that the category page describes as the way of putting it there. Having looked at the template that Staircase invokes, it also does not appear to affect categorization anywhere. Can you tell me where Staircase's entry into the Equipment category originates? There must be some additional mechanism at work, and I am at a loss. But if I proceed on some of the things we've talked about, I'll need to know completely how to manipulate that stuff.

Thanks much, again! I hope I'm not overloading you with my barrage of writing and questions. Butterbur (talk) 17:10, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The category is added by the template where it says {{mainonly|[[Category:Equipment]]}}.  :) margotbean (talk) 18:31, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! I've been writing up some words describing item classifications, to clarify my thoughts, but wording them a bit like introductory Wiki material. It might be possible to plug some of it in somewhere. That's how I just came up with the idea of a Glossary. It could be an article (a page) on the Wiki. Individual terms could be placed in top-level sections, thus serving as appropriate link targets for anyone who wanted to refer a reader to a definition. I almost have a partial beginner set I could put in there already, as long as the definitions are acceptable. But what I'm doing could lead to some changes in definition too, so I think some care is needed with how soon and in what way (or if) it's all introduced to the Wiki. What do you think? Butterbur (talk) 23:08, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
I think I'll just get started on the Glossary. No harm if it's marked as new and doesn't impact existing material. It can always be retracted if need be. Butterbur (talk) 23:53, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. I noticed when I created a sandbox page that it came up missing the "Add Topic" menu item at the top of the page. I thought that was because it is a user file. However, I see the same thing on the new Glossary page. Is there a way to get that added? Butterbur (talk) 00:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Ok, I get it now. Only a talk page has that menu item. Butterbur (talk) 18:40, 9 March 2017 (UTC)


Hi again! I think I've completed the glossary work that involves definitions and categories we have discussed. I also think I'd like to proceed with changing categorizations, articles, and anything else in the Wiki that doesn't match up with the glossary definitions. Please look the glossary over (it points out quite a few examples) and let me know if you see anything you object to. I'll probably pause for a time before going ahead, just for other reasons, so I'll watch for any cautionary messages from you before changing much of anything. Changes could involve direct article text, categories, and templates that provide navigation boxes. Thanks! Butterbur (talk) 19:21, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Weather

Hi! I had the thought that it might be nice to have some statistical info on the probability of rain, or lightning for that matter. Do you have a way to get this? It came to mind because of a game I was playing where it rained only 3 times in Spring 1, on the 3rd, 12th, and 14th - not one day in the last two weeks of the month! Doesn't that seem unusual? (This particular game has been unusually stingy in providing forage throughout the month also. Do you know of anything that can account for such long-term adversarial-type behavior, other than just the small random statistical chance?) Thanks. Butterbur (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes. No. Yes.
lol, I have checked the game code and I'm looking at about 200 lines of code. It's currently 4AM, so I will look at it tomorrow. As a teaser, there is randomness involved, but the game also takes the modulus of the day of the month in determining weather sometimes. I'm curious myself now, so stay tuned. Cheers, margotbean (talk) 08:08, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
I've never seen a festival day get rain. I'd wager we never will. Butterbur (talk) 22:15, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
That would be why it says that on the page.  ;) margotbean (talk) 22:59, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
LOL. I didn't check there! Butterbur (talk) 23:16, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Translation Issue

Hey Morgotbean, :) may i ask you to tell me how to change the template de:Vorlage:FishLocationEntry in that way, that in non-english wikis we will be able to use "|alt=" for the non-english name of the fish like in de:Vorlage:ItemLink.sorry to bother you, but i am to inexperienced with this template-stuff to change it by own... --Untergeher (talk) 12:27, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Weather

I've noticed an aspect of info that is at least somewhat missing, but I don't know what the actual possibilities are. This one seems like a perfect match for code reading. I have only seen rain in the Spring; in Summer, it's always storms. The Weather article says varieties of wind are seasonal, one for Spring and another for Fall. And it would seem likely that snow happens only in winter, though no Wiki material I have seen says so.

So, what are all the possibilities for weather, by season? It would be reasonable to list this explicitly in the weather article.

The Lightning Rod article also lists the equipment as seasonal: spring, summer, and fall. (?) Isn't the infobox really trying to say that lightning is seasonal and only happens in those seasons? (But does it really? Summer's all I've seen.)

Is this stuff an easy lookup, or is it scattered all over the code? Butterbur (talk) 04:19, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the code exists in two places. Not such a difficult lookup, but every time I try, my eyelids start to feel very heavy. Strange.
It is on my list of things to do! I agree, it should be on the weather page, but especially on the lightning rod page.
If you get impatient, you can always download ILSpy and decompile the executable, then have a look for yourself. Really, it's simple, and no shady hacking programs are required. In the meantime, I will bump it up on the list, because it's been bugging me too. (I'm in year 12 on my main save, and still don't know if I ever saw a thunderstorm in Spring. Shameful!) --margotbean (talk) 04:51, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
(Smile) Heavy eyelids - that's what happens to me when I think of looking at code too. Just to show you how far away I have gone from my engineering days, I haven't ever heard of ILSPY. And since I run under Steam, I don't have an SV executable.
But, I'm not impatient either. That's another part of what I didn't like about engineering. Mostly, "dynamic environment" means "someone breathing down your neck". (Not that you would.) And neither would I. Thanks for your interest in all my little pryings and diggings. In some ways, I might have made a good farmer, or prospector - or maybe geologist, archeologist, paleontologist - you get the "gist". ;) Butterbur (talk) 08:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, it turns out Pathoschild has already done the work: http://canimod.com/for-devs/weather --margotbean (talk) 18:46, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Template reversions

Hi Margotbean. I see you reverted my changes to a few templates (namely Template:Delete, Template:Heart event, and Template:Stub). If I understand correctly, template changes should be sync'd to all languages wikis? I'm used to each wiki maintaining its own templates, so that didn't occur to me. Does that only apply to templates which already exist on those wikis, or do I need to sync the license templates I created (and their images) too? Pathoschild (talk) 21:24, 4 May 2017 (BST)

If the modding pages are going to be translated into other languages, then the templates need to be manually copied to those languages... I guess you're asking if you need to copy all the new templates you created to all 6 other languages, so my answer is "IMO, not yet." The whole modding area of the English-language wiki isn't 100% complete (is it?), so there's no need.
Eventually it would be ideal if all the modding pages existed in all languages, but there's no rush. Most of the other languages are still working (very slowly) on the basic pages (crops, crafting, artisan goods, cooking...)
Not that I want to discourage you if copying 5-10 templates into 6 languages is something you really really have an itch to do... But in a way, I am discouraging you, I guess, because it's too soon. Your choice. Just remember that as soon as you copy a template to another language, then make a change in English, you'll probably have to make the same change in 6 other languages.  ;) margotbean (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2017 (BST)
p.s. It's only just occurred to me that we might someday find a translator who also knows mediawiki syntax and can copy the templates him/herself! That hasn't happened yet, so we're copying all the templates ourselves...
Realizing this, your question makes a lot more sense. Yes, we need to copy the templates for them because they can't/won't do it on their own, but no, it's too soon to do it ourselves.  :) margotbean (talk) 22:24, 4 May 2017 (BST)
That makes sense; I won't sync the license templates then. So it's fine if I reinstate my changes to Template:Delete, Template:Heart event, and Template:Stub if I sync them to the other wikis? Pathoschild (talk) 23:13, 4 May 2017 (BST)
I'll be brutally honest, and I'm sorry, because you're such a peach and have done so much for the SDV community. I'd rather you not add another template call to Template:Heart event at this point. I'd also prefer the large heading "Article Stub" to stay in Template:Stub, although showing it a 2nd time is redundant and unnecessary. I'd rather not see the boldfaced "marked for deletion" removed from Template:Delete either. That being said, if you want to make the other changes in 6 other languages, go for it. Some of them have been translated, and some haven't, I think. Have fun with that.
...Also, if you add the blurb to Template:Stub about how you can help by expanding the article (whether there's a reason given or not), rem. to include the link to edit the article. People really don't know there's an edit button at the top right of the page sometimes.
Thank you! margotbean (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2017 (BST)
Alright, I'll just leave the existing templates as they are for now. :) Pathoschild (talk) 02:34, 5 May 2017 (BST)

Add CSS snippet

Hi again. The TOC section numbering in Version History is confusing, since it looks like "4 1.11". Can you add this snippet to MediaWiki:Vector.css on all wikis, which will let us remove the section numbers when they're not needed? (The noautonum name is suggested by mw:Manual:Table of contents#Auto-numbering, but feel free to use a different name if you want.)

.noautonum .tocnumber { display: none; }

Thanks! —Pathoschild (talk) 17:22, 15 May 2017 (BST)

Loading Pages

I don't know if this is in your baileywick, but I've been noticing that with ever-increasing frequency, the Wiki seems just to spin while trying to load pages. I haven't noticed if there's a difference for some pages as opposed to others, but I have seen the "loading" spinner continue for hours, even after I have repeatedly told my browser to stop loading the page. In no case have I experienced any problem or incompleteness in access to the Wiki text, but it's annoying to me when machine cycles are burned without purpose. I can only suppose that they must be burning on the Wiki's servers too, which might quickly mount to a source of performance problems. So I thought I'd mention it as a possible capacity eater. I don't have any indicators of whether or not these streaming ads have an influence either. There's never an "X" on their window to turn them off. Butterbur (talk) 16:50, 20 May 2017 (BST)

Well, that sucks. I can't say I've noticed a difference on my end. But, I have two ad-blockers on my machine.
The javascript that makes tables sortable always executes later than the page info., so you'll see all the info on the page, but there may be a delay before the little black arrows in the table headers (the ones you click to sort ascending/descending) show up. Is that what's happening to you? Are the little black triangles/arrows not showing up? margotbean (talk) 20:32, 20 May 2017 (BST)
Hm, I don't know. I'll have to take a look at that when I see this again. Butterbur (talk) 10:55, 21 May 2017 (BST)
I hadn't seen the behavior today until now. I had thought I'd open "Fish" or some such lister guaranteed to have black arrows in the table headers. However, this came up first: "Hay Hopper"! One couldn't ask for a shorter page, or simpler in design. But of everything I happened to look at today, that's the one that is acting up. Go figure. It really surprises me. But on the other hand, it may rule out a ton of possibilities related to the Wiki pages themselves. Maybe the ads are worth a closer examination. Butterbur (talk) 07:50, 22 May 2017 (BST)
Aha! More experience, at least. "Vinegar" started misbehaving. Reloads had no effect, until finally one produced the page without that nasty "Sling" ad. That's a particularly persistent and noxious one I often run a reload for, to try to rid the display of it, but it often appears repeatedly, sometimes many times. It's not unique that way, just aggressive. And when successfully avoided, page reloading also assumed normal operation. I'm going to keep watching this and other ads for this kind of usurpation, and will report on any more I find. I'll also keep looking for the reload spinning in the absence of offending ads and report on that as well. But it may be that the Wiki will want to examine more closely just what their advertisers want to place on the Wiki. Butterbur (talk) 23:00, 22 May 2017 (BST)
I forgot to mention that the reload spinning does not happen every time the Sling ad appears, nor do I think it is deterministic in any case. It's more like there is a susceptibility present somewhere that triggers upon occasion. It's a common enough thing for behaviors like that to occur in anything affecting a UI. Butterbur (talk) 23:41, 22 May 2017 (BST)
No - never mind. The more I look at this, the less consistent it seems, and the less tied to anything specific that I can identify. It's pandemic, but it seems to strike at random. I accumulate loose threads, but they won't weave into a pattern, and they're made of different fibers. I can't make them into a fabric. No sense trying to make clothes for a pig. I need to leave this to someone with some experience in technologies I haven't explored, and what those are, even that I don't know. Butterbur (talk) 11:40, 23 May 2017 (BST)
How often do you clear your browser's cache? Which browser are you using? Also, are you at all interested in using ad-blockers? margotbean (talk) 05:34, 24 May 2017 (BST)
I'm using Chrome now. When I switched to Windows 10 a few months ago, I decided I hated Edge, and when I tried to continue with IE, it was still in my face all the time. But I'm not a heavy browser user, so I haven't spent much time on it, and mostly have just let it do its thing with defaults. I never clear its cache - don't even know how. (But this morning, coming out of a reboot, I got the spin on the Wiki's home page, which has been going all day, so unless the cache persists across boots, that wasn't the cause this time anyway.)
Yeah, I'd probably be interested in an ad blocker (I hate ads). But it's another piece of technology overhead I haven't investigated because I hate wasting all my time learning and relearning only to have it change tomorrow. In general, it's just too much overhead. But if you wanted to give me a quick pointer to something good, I'd go ahead and put it right on. What's easy, I tend to do. And thanks! I have more motivation for this than for most stuff. Butterbur (talk) 09:03, 24 May 2017 (BST)
Install this: https://adblockplus.org/. See if it helps. margotbean (talk) 17:08, 24 May 2017 (BST)
Thanks, kindly, Margotbean! I have it now, and have read its materials. I like what I see very much - thoughtful tool producing.
The Wiki home page did not spin this morning, proving well enough that the problems are intermittent or random. But, there are no early indications of the effectiveness of AdBlock in neutralizing the reloads. I'll let you know on that front as time goes on. But that would be pure bonus. Butterbur (talk) 18:28, 24 May 2017 (BST)

There has been no further hint of load spinning since I installed AdBlock (I have it blocking all ads.) Butterbur (talk) 05:31, 27 May 2017 (BST)

 :D :D :D margotbean (talk) 07:42, 27 May 2017 (BST)
 :D  :D Butterbur (talk) 16:49, 27 May 2017 (BST)

Arquivo Deletado

Boa noite Margot! Sou nova nesta wiki e não sei muito, mas tenho tentado contribuir. Eu fiquei em dúvida por você ter deletado o arquivo Habilidades_quadro.png mesmo ele sendo utilizado na página Habilidades na Wiki Pt como você pode ver em Histórico Habilidades, a primeira modificação que fiz. Teve algum outro motivo além deste que você postou: "Unused on the Portugese wiki; can be re-uploaded if it's going to be used.)"? Se o arquivo não estiver de acordo, por favor, indique-me os links ou regras que devo seguir, pois só quero ajudar. Obrigada. May (talk) 03:15, 3 July 2017 (BST)

Tomato

I believe I've made my point to you about talking, and my point about the revision. I left one Wiki because of incivility, I think you know I don't like fighting, and also that I don't take offense at objections to my edits. But I have yet to be met with cold silence, and I must tell you that I consider it to be incivil also. Will you not say something about why you keep reverting me? Butterbur (talk) 07:20, 3 July 2017 (BST)

Quote font

Hi, I've started a discussion at Template talk:Quote. This'll be tricky to resolve, since some readers are seeing Geneva and the rest are seeing whatever their default browser font is (e.g. Times New Roman). I'd like your input on this. Rigel Kent (talk) 20:13, 8 July 2017 (BST)

Template:Name image link

Hi, recently you reverted my alt attribute edit to Template:Name. The image appears unlinked to me. Are you seeing something different? Rigel Kent (talk) 05:37, 11 July 2017 (BST)

No, I just forgot to revert my change. I've done so now. Apologies! margotbean (talk) 06:57, 11 July 2017 (BST)

Revert to Template:CookingChannel

Hi, I wanted to ask about your recent revert to Template:CookingChannel. There wasn't an edit message or talk page message. Was there a layout or browser-specific problem I missed? Rigel Kent (talk) 08:05, 21 July 2017 (BST)

Animals and Farmer Bedtime

Seriously? I still can't believe that's in the code, and no, it makes no sense to me why it would be. And I could swear that it doesn't work that way: I'll be looking for cases. I need convincing. And either way, it's a game changer for me.

Sorry to let you down, my friend. I just don't see why a farmer with animals should be going to bed at 6 o'clock every day in order to avoid penalties. It's not meant to annoy you, and if I have, I apologize. Likewise if I'm missing something obvious. That seldom happens to me, so I tend to trust my powers of observation. But I'm not in the best of health, and perhaps my powers fail me. Butterbur (talk) 15:44, 26 July 2017 (BST)

Attack on all wikis

Hey all wikis are being attacked please help! Pi Polaris (talk) 17:03, 4 August 2017 (BST)

Working on it :D. Thanks for being so quick to report things! Katzeus (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2017 (BST)
Thank you for fighting them!Pi Polaris (talk) 18:08, 4 August 2017 (BST)

Friendship

Sorry for the blunder on the Friendship and Bundles articles, Margotbean. I was working from memory, but I guess it was a false memory. Can't say why I became confused, but I'll take greater care with verification from now on. Butterbur (talk) 06:32, 18 September 2017 (BST)

No need for an apology, but verification would always be much appreciated! margotbean (talk) 18:27, 18 September 2017 (BST)

Proposed change to infobox templates

Hi Margotbean. I've been thinking of adding the internal object IDs to the various infoboxes like this:

Hematite
Hematite.png
An iron-based Mineral with interesting magnetic properties.
Information
Source: Frozen Geode Omni Geode
Sell Price: 150g
Gemologist Profession:
(+30% Sell Price)
195g
Internal data
ID: object 573

That benefits players who want to use item exploits, and modders who want to look up an item. What do you think? —Pathoschild (talk) 17:19, 21 October 2017 (BST)

My instinct is that it's too much info. for the average player. Item IDs are already in the Modding section (and on the reddit, and the forums), so the info is out there for those who want it. For those who aren't cheating or modding, it's useless info.
There's really only a few items that people seem to want to cheat to get as well. Not to make fun of your example (too much), but how many users want to name their chickens "Hematite"? (Are you laughing? I hope so...) margotbean (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2017 (BST)

A question

From what country are you?

Paul123 (talk) 14:35, 23 October 2017 (BST)

Link to modding docs from main page

Hi Margotbean. Any objections to adding this link to the main page under Gameplay?

Modding

Pathoschild (talk) 15:36, 25 October 2017 (BST)

No objections from me, I think it's a good idea to link to it on the main page. We should probably check with Katzeus to see if he has any thoughts, first. margotbean (talk) 15:51, 25 October 2017 (BST)
So, I made a (crappy low-quality) mockup, showing modding under gameplay as a link, and also as its own section. Which would you prefer? margotbean (talk) 16:16, 25 October 2017 (BST)
Temporary image deleted
The extra visibility of a separate section is nice, but I think adding it to Gameplay is better since there'll only be one link. —Pathoschild (talk) 16:44, 25 October 2017 (BST)
I agree - I think it looks best under gameplay vs a separate section - seems like the best place for it. I'm happy to add those links this afternoon :D Katzeus (talk) 11:09, 26 October 2017 (BST)
I've added the link already. I'm deleting the temporary image I uploaded. I thought my OCD would be bothered by the fact that the last column has one more entry than the middle 2 columns, but, no, I think it looks great.  :D
I will add the link on the Chinese language wiki too, since they have the Modding:Index page and at least one other modding page translated already. margotbean (talk) 11:51, 26 October 2017 (BST)
It does look great, and works fine with responsiveness/mobile too. I think we prob could plug in a couple links in the other columns now that we have the empty space (that was the first thing I thought of too) but it doesn't look bad or unbalanced as it is right now at all! Katzeus (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2017 (BST)
Thanks! It looks perfect. —Pathoschild (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2017 (BST)

Going to Cindersap

You can go there on Spring 24 (Flower Dance), any time after 2 PM. You will also find Clint at work in the Blacksmith Shop between 3 and 4 PM on Spring 11 (Egg Festival). I don't know how many of these peculiarities there are, but between the table and the opening sentence of Shop Schedules, not all the ground is covered. There are 3 separate considerations in the event of a festival: access to the area where the festival takes place, whether or not the building is locked, and whether or not a shop in a building is open for business. It seems that not everything is entirely straightforward in these matters. Butterbur (talk) 07:45, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Where is "Pelican Town" Exactly?

In dealing with that shop schedule stuff, we cross-edited on the basis of the map geography, "Stardew Valley" vs "Pelican Town". Ok, the basic ideas are there on the Wiki, but only in outline. The specifics are nebulous.

To address the question in the game's own terms, it makes sense to me to consider the various game screens and the geographical regions they include. There are pretty clear little paths that get you from one to another. The "train station", the "quarry", the "bus stop", and the "farm" are pretty easy to identify. "Cindersap Forest" and the "Secret Woods" are easily distinguishable, but "the forest" as a term is somewhat indistinct. Does it include both of those, or just Cindersap? Initially, it took me a bit of time to figure out what "the mountain" meant. There's no particularly mountainous feel about where the tent, carpenter's shop, or adventurer's guild are, no particular sense of elevation change in going there or back, nor any nearby looming, bulky mass. But one senses the location from the transitions from game screen to game screen.

"Town center" is another of those nebulous things. To me, I envision that it's the paved area that Pierre's and the Clinic face, bordered by the Saloon. But the Wiki text doesn't use the term quite that way. It seems to include Willow Lane, and even the areas across the river - Joja, the Blacksmith, and the Museum. Why? Pretty obviously because they all share one game screen. And to me, that's also the region that the name "Pelican Town" invokes. The Community Center is one screen north, adjacent to the town proper. The Beach is a screen south, not exactly in town, but by the town.

But on the other hand, "Pelican Town" could mean the "metro area" around the center, including beach and fountain. Why? Because the game enforces that notion on festival days. All those screens are inaccessible due to festival set-up at the same time.

None of this is articulated in Wiki text, which is why the text is nebulous, or at least non-specific. It must be interpreted, and different people will do so in different ways, especially at first. But I think I have made sense of it, and I think eventually other players do too. Still, I think the Wiki would be more helpful if it were clearer / more specific about boundaries.

And that was part of the consideration I applied in my Shop Schedules edit that you reversed. Just which shops and houses are included in Pelican Town? They're all there in "Stardew Valley". But the article text says shop closures (detailed in the table) and "locked" buildings (which are something else) all behave the same way on the stated festival days (which they don't, neither in Stardew Valley nor in Pelican Town).

So:

  1. Is your understanding of the geographical terms the same as mine?
  2. Do you see any way of using those terms to distinguish one set of buildings or houses from another in such a way that closures or locking or general access can be discussed in a useful way? (I can't. The differences are too distributed.)


Well, the way the term "Pelican Town" is used on the wiki is definitely inconsistent. Going through 1100 pages to make sure they all read the same is something I haven't undertaken, although I have considered it.
The Pelican Town page makes it pretty clear what pelican town includes... but that page may have been created after several other pages that use the term to mean other areas, or even to mean "Pelican Town Square", and not Joja/Blacksmith/Museum.
I think we can describe what homes and buildings are closed based on map areas, yes, because I believe the game code controls them by map area. I think the pages listed in the locations navbox follow game map areas pretty well. It's the other pages that may be problematic.
I'm actually not sure that answers your questions... margotbean (talk) 19:00, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
It's much more than I would have expected to be available. Thanks! That makes it possible to strategize collection of all the closings/lockings details, testing first for consistency within single area(s), and then for matched or mismatched behavior between areas. Useful patterns might emerge.
Actually applying the findings consistently throughout the Wiki is definitely a daunting task, but if we could see how to create a page that captures and presents the details, then it could be used as the link-to integration point that would ensure continuing consistency. A tall order, I know. But it's the first method I've been able to conjure that might actually yield a decent result. Butterbur (talk) 06:30, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Basic Fertilizer Numbers

Your numbers for Basic Fertilizer with level 10 farming are incorrect. I used Wolfram Alpha to calculate the precise chance of my results occurring by chance using the following system.

According to you, there's a 25% chance of regular, 50% chance of silver, and 25% chance of gold. I then converted this into four numbers: Gold=4, Silver = 3 and 2, and 1 = regular. This allows us to convert our numbers into a 4-sided die. Over 100 rolls, you would get 25 golds, 50 silvers, and 25 regulars, on average. That adds up to 250, as the average per plant is 2.5.

I then used those same numbers to compare to my numbers; with 17.5% regular, 42.5% silver, and 40% gold, that results in 40*4+(42.5/2)*3+(42.5/2)*2+17.5=283.75. That's 13.5% larger than our expected value. We then, using Wolfram Alpha, calculate the percentage chance of rolling 13.5% high over 2500 rolls of a four sided die. Unfortunately, Wolfram Alpha times out beyond 600 rolls, but that should give us a good baseline figure.

And it does; the chance of me getting that degree of discrepancy by random chance is 1 in 18628557239883. For comparison's sake, that's six orders of magnitude less likely than winning the Megamillions Lottery. And that's the *lower* bound; in reality I didn't do 600 tests, I did nearly 2500.

Something is seriously wonky. DemiserofD (talk) 10:37, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks DemiserofD. I've been watching this discussion, as I've noticed the different-than-advertised proportions ever since I started playing the game over 10 months ago. I never had as many probability tools in my repertoire as you seem to, though, and never did quite so extensive a study. I can say, roughly enough though, that a proportion closer to 1 regular to 2 silver and 2 gold is much more my general experience also, so I get the feeling that your 2500-occurrence test must be close to the actual theoretical norm. Nice work! Butterbur (talk) 14:52, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Margotbean, see User:DemiserofD. These numbers should be incorporated into the Wiki. Butterbur (talk) 15:43, 9 November 2017 (UTC)